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Trumbull　any　more；　but　thereafter　he　should　hold　Lincoln　responsible

for　the　slanders　upon　him。　　When　I　met　him　at　Charleston　after　that；

although　I　think　that　I　should　not　have　noticed　the　subject　if　he　had

not　said　he　would　hold　me　responsible　for　it；　I　spread　out　before　him

the　statements　of　the　evidence　that　Judge　Trumbull　had　used；　and　I

asked　Judge　Douglas；　piece　by　piece；　to　put　his　finger　upon　one　piece

of　all　that　evidence　that　he　would　say　was　a　forgery！　　When　I　went

through　with　each　and　every　piece；　Judge　Douglas　did　not　dare　then　to

say　that　any　piece　of　it　was　a　forgery。　　So　it　seems　that　there　are

some　things　that　Judge　Douglas　dares　to　do；　and　some　that　he　dares

not　to　do。



＇A　voice：　It　is　the　same　thing　with　you。＇



Yes；　sir；　it　is　the　same　thing　with　me。　　I　do　dare　to　say　forgery

when　it　is　true；　and　don't　dare　to　say　forgery　when　it　is　false。　　Now

I　will　say　here　to　this　audience　and　to　Judge　Douglas　I　have　not

dared　to　say　he　committed　a　forgery；　and　I　never　shall　until　I　know

it；　but　I　did　dare　to　sayjust　to　suggest　to　the　Judgethat　a

forgery　had　been　committed；　which　by　his　own　showing　had　been　traced

to　him　and　two　of　his　friends。　　I　dared　to　suggest　to　him　that　he　had

expressly　promised　in　one　of　his　public　speeches　to　investigate　that

matter；　and　I　dared　to　suggest　to　him　that　there　was　an　implied

promise　that　when　he　investigated　it　he　would　make　known　the　result。

I　dared　to　suggest　to　the　Judge　that　he　could　not　expect　to　be　quite

clear　of　suspicion　of　that　fraud；　for　since　the　time　that　promise　was

made　he　had　been　with　those　friends；　and　had　not　kept　his　promise　in

regard　to　the　investigation　and　the　report　upon　it。　　I　am　not　a　very

daring　man；　but　I　dared　that　much；　Judge；　and　I　am　not　much　scared

about　it　yet。　　When　the　Judge　says　he　would　n't　have　believed　of

Abraham　Lincoln　that　he　would　have　made　such　an　attempt　as　that　he

reminds　me　of　the　fact　that　he　entered　upon　this　canvass　with　the

purpose　to　treat　me　courteously；　that　touched　me　somewhat。　　It　sets

me　to　thinking。　　I　was　aware；　when　it　was　first　agreed　that　Judge

Douglas　and　I　were　to　have　these　seven　joint　discussions；　that　they

were　the　successive　acts　of　a　drama；　perhaps　I　should　say；　to　be

enacted；　not　merely　in　the　face　of　audiences　like　this；　but　in　the

face　of　the　nation；　and　to　some　extent；　by　my　relation　to　him；　and

not　from　anything　in　myself；　in　the　face　of　the　world；　and　I　am

anxious　that　they　should　be　conducted　with　dignity　and　in　the　good

temper　which　would　be　befitting　the　vast　audiences　before　which　it

was　conducted。　　But　when　Judge　Douglas　got　home　from　Washington　and

made　his　first　speech　in　Chicago；　the　evening　afterward　I　made　some

sort　of　a　reply　to　it。　　His　second　speech　was　made　at　Bloomington；　in

which　he　commented　upon　my　speech　at　Chicago　and　said　that　I　had　used

language　ingeniously　contrived　to　conceal　my　intentions；　or　words　to

that　effect。　　Now；　I　understand　that　this　is　an　imputation　upon　my

veracity　and　my　candor。　　I　do　not　know　what　the　Judge　understood　by

it；　but　in　our　first　discussion；　at　Ottawa；　he　led　off　by　charging　a

bargain；　somewhat　corrupt　in　its　character；　upon　Trumbull　and

myself；that　we　had　entered　into　a　bargain；　one　of　the　terms　of

which　was　that　Trumbull　was　to　Abolitionize　the　old　Democratic　party；

and　I　（Lincoln）　was　to　Abolitionize　the　old　Whig　party；　I　pretending

to　be　as　good　an　old…line　Whig　as　ever。　　Judge　Douglas　may　not

understand　that　he　implicated　my　truthfulness　and　my　honor　when　he

said　I　was　doing　one　thing　and　pretending　another；　and　I

misunderstood　him　if　he　thought　he　was　treating　me　in　a　dignified

way；　as　a　man　of　honor　and　truth；　as　he　now　claims　he　was　disposed　to

treat　me。　　Even　after　that　time；　at　Galesburgh；　when　he　brings

forward　an　extract　from　a　speech　made　at　Chicago　and　an　extract　from

a　speech　made　at　Charleston；　to　prove　that　I　was　trying　to　play　a

double　part；　that　I　was　trying　to　cheat　the　public；　and　get　votes

upon　one　set　of　principles　at　one　place；　and　upon　another　set　of

principles　at　another　place；I　do　not　understand　but　what　he

impeaches　my　honor；　my　veracity；　and　my　candor；　and　because　he　does

this；　I　do　not　understand　that　I　am　bound；　if　I　see　a　truthful　ground

for　it；　to　keep　my　hands　off　of　him。　　As　soon　as　I　learned　that　Judge

Douglas　was　disposed　to　treat　me　in　this　way；　I　signified　in　one　of

my　speeches　that　I　should　be　driven　to　draw　upon　whatever　of　humble

resources　I　might　have；to　adopt　a　new　course　with　him。　　I　was　not

entirely　sure　that　I　should　be　able　to　hold　my　own　with　him；　but　I　at

least　had　the　purpose　made　to　do　as　well　as　I　could　upon　him；　and　now

I　say　that　I　will　not　be　the　first　to　cry　〃Hold。〃　　I　think　it

originated　with　the　Judge；　and　when　he　quits；　I　probably　will。　　But　I

shall　not　ask　any　favors　at　all。　　He　asks　me；　or　he　asks　the

audience；　if　I　wish　to　push　this　matter　to　the　point　of　personal

difficulty。　　I　tell　him；　no。　　He　did　not　make　a　mistake；　in　one　of

his　early　speeches；　when　he　called　me　an　〃amiable〃　man；　though

perhaps　he　did　when　he　called　me　an　〃intelligent〃　man。　　It　really

hurts　me　very　much　to　suppose　that　I　have　wronged　anybody　on　earth。

I　again　tell　him；　no！　　I　very　much　prefer；　when　this　canvass　shall　be

over；　however　it　may　result；　that　we　at　least　part　without　any　bitter

recollections　of　personal　difficulties。



The　Judge；　in　his　concluding　speech　at　Galesburgh；　says　that　I　was

pushing　this　matter　to　a　personal　difficulty；　to　avoid　the

responsibility　for　the　enormity　of　my　principles。　　I　say　to　the　Judge

and　this　audience；　now；　that　I　will　again　state　our　principles；　as

well　as　I　hastily　can；　in　all　their　enormity；　and　if　the　Judge

hereafter　chooses　to　confine　himself　to　a　war　upon　these　principles；

he　will　probably　not　find　me　departing　from　the　same　course。



We　have　in　this　nation　this　element　of　domestic　slavery。　　It　is　a

matter　of　absolute　certainty　that　it　is　a　disturbing　element。　　It　is

the　opinion　of　all　the　great　men　who　have　expressed　an　opinion　upon

it；　that　it　is　a　dangerous　element。　　We　keep　up　a　controversy　in

regard　to　it。　　That　controversy　necessarily　springs　from　difference

of　opinion；　and　if　we　can　learn　exactlycan　reduce　to　the　lowest

elementswhat　that　difference　of　opinion　is；　we　perhaps　shall　be

better　prepared　for　discussing　the　different　systems　of　policy　that

we　would　propose　in　regard　to　that　disturbing　element。　　I　suggest

that　the　difference　of　opinion；　reduced　to　its　lowest　of　terms；　is　no

other　than　the　difference　between　the　men　who　think　slavery　a　wrong

and　those　who　do　not　think　it　wrong。　　The　Republican　party　think　it

wrong；　we　think　it　is　a　moral；　a　social；　and　a　political　wrong。　　We

think　it　as　a　wrong　not　confining　itself　merely　to　the　persons　or　the

States　where　it　exists；　but　that　it　is　a　wrong　in　its　tendency；　to

say　the　least；　that　extends　itself　to　the　existence　of　the　whole

nation。　　Because　we　think　it　wrong；　we　propose　a　course　of　policy

that　shall　deal　with　it　as　a　wrong。　　We　deal　with　it　as　with　any

other　wrong；　in　so　far　as　we　can　prevent　its　growing　any　larger；　and

so　deal　with　it　that　in　the　run　of　time　there　may　be　some　promise　of

an　end　to　it。　　We　have　a　due　regard　to　the　actual　presence　of　it

amongst　us；　and　the　difficulties　of　getting　rid　of　it　in　any

satisfactory　way；　and　all　the　constitutional　obligations　thrown　about

it。　　I　suppose　that　in　reference　both　to　its　actual　existence　in　the

nation；　and　to　our　constitutional　obligations；　we　have　no　right　at

all　to　disturb　it　in　the　States　where　it　exists；　and　we　profess　that

we　have　no　more　inclination　to　disturb　it　than　we　have　the　right　to

do　it。　　We　go　further　than　that：　we　don't　propose　to　disturb　it

where；　in　one　instance；　we　think　the　Constitution　would　permit　us。

We　think　the　Constitution　would　permit　us　to　disturb　it　in　the

District　of　Columbia。　　Still；　we　do　not　propose　to　do　that；　unless　it

should　be　in　terms　which　I　don't　suppose　the　nation　is　very　likely

soon　to　agree　to；the　terms　of　making　the　emancipation　gradual；　and

compensating　the　unwilling　owners。　　Where　we　suppose　we　have　the

constitutional　right；　we　restrain　ourselves　in　reference　to　the

actual　existence　of　the　institution　and　the　difficulties　thrown　about

it。　　We　also　oppose　it　as　an　evil　so　far　as　it　seeks　to　spread

itself。　　We　insist　on　the　policy　that　shall　restrict　it　to　its

present　limits。　　We　don't　suppose　that　in　doing　this　we　violate

anything　due　to　the　actual　presence　of　the　institution；　or　anything

due　to　the　constitutional　guaranties　thrown　around　it。



We　oppose　the　Dred　Scott　decision　in　a　certain　way；　upon　which　I

ought　perhaps　to　address　you　a　few　words。　　We　do　not　propose　that

when　Dred　Scott　has　been　decided　to　be　a　slave　by　the　court；　we；　as　a

mob；　will　decide　him　to　be　free。　　We　do　not　propose　that；　when　any

other　one；　or　one　thousand；　shall　be　decided　by　that　court　to　be

slaves；　we　will　in　any　violent　way　disturb　the　rights　of　property

thus　settled；　but　we　nevertheless　do　oppose　that　decision　as　a

political　rule　which　shall　be　binding　on　the　voter　to　vote　for　nobody

who　thinks　it　wrong；　which　shall　be　binding　on　the　members　of

Congress　or　the　President　to　favor　no　measure　that　does　not　actually

concur　with　the　principles　of　that　decision。　　We　do　not　propose　to　be

bound　by　it　as　a　political　rule　in　that　way；　because　we　think　it　lays

the　foundation；　not　merely　of　enlarging　and　spreading　out　what　we

consider　an　evil；　but　it　lays　the　foundation　for　spreading　that　evil

into　the　States　themselves。　　We　propose　so　resisting　it　as　to　have　it

reversed　if　we　can；　and　a　new　judicial　rule　established　upon　this

subject。



I　will　add　this：　that　if　there　be　any　man　who　does　not　believe　that

slavery　is　wrong　in　the　three　aspects　which　I　have　mentioned；　or　in

any　one　of　them；　that　man　is　misplaced；　and　ought　to　leave　us；　while

on　the　other　hand；　if　there　be　any　man　in　the　Republican　party　who　is