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ore　unjust？　　　Cal。　Quite　true。　　　Soc。　And　are　not　just　men　gentle；　as　Homer　says？…or　are　you　of　another　mind？　　　Cal。　I　agree。　　　Soc。　And　yet　he　really　did　make　them　more　savage　than　he　received　them；　and　their　savageness　was　shown　towards　himself；　which　he　must　have　been　very　far　from　desiring。　　　Cal。　Do　you　want　me　to　agree　with　you？　　　Soc。　Yes；　if　I　seem　to　you　to　speak　the　truth。　　　Cal。　Granted　then。　　　Soc。　And　if　they　were　more　savage；　must　they　not　have　been　more　unjust　and　inferior？　　　Cal。　Granted　again。　　　Soc。　Then　upon　this　view；　Pericles　was　not　a　good　statesman？　　　Cal。　That　is；　upon　your　view。　　　Soc。　Nay；　the　view　is　yours；　after　what　you　have　admitted。　Take　the　case　of　Cimon　again。　Did　not　the　very　persons　whom　he　was　serving　ostracize　him；　in　order　that　they　might　not　hear　his　voice　for　ten　years？　and　they　did　just　the　same　to　Themistocles；　adding　the　penalty　of　exile；　and　they　voted　that　Miltiades；　the　hero　of　Marathon；　should　be　thrown　into　the　pit　of　death；　and　he　was　only　saved　by　the　Prytanis。　And　yet；　if　they　had　been　really　good　men；　as　you　say；　these　things　would　never　have　happened　to　them。　For　the　good　charioteers　are　not　those　who　at　first　keep　their　place；　and　then；　when　they　have　broken…in　their　horses；　and　themselves　become　better　charioteers；　are　thrown　out…that　is　not　the　way　either　in　charioteering　or　in　any　profession…What　do　you　think？　　　Cal。　I　should　think　not。　　　Soc。　Well；　but　if　so；　the　truth　is　as　I　have　said　already；　that　in　the　Athenian　State　no　one　has　ever　shown　himself　to　be　a　good　statesman…you　admitted　that　this　was　true　of　our　present　statesmen；　but　not　true　of　former　ones；　and　you　preferred　them　to　the　others；　yet　they　have　turned　out　to　be　no　better　than　our　present　ones；　and　therefore；　if　they　were　rhetoricians；　they　did　not　use　the　true　art　of　rhetoric　or　of　flattery；　or　they　would　not　have　fallen　out　of　favour。　　　Cal。　But　surely；　Socrates；　no　living　man　ever　came　near　any　one　of　them　in　his　performances。　　　Soc。　O；　my　dear　friend；　I　say　nothing　against　them　regarded　as　the　serving…men　of　the　State；　and　I　do　think　that　they　were　certainly　more　serviceable　than　those　who　are　living　now；　and　better　able　to　gratify　the　wishes　of　the　State；　but　as　to　transforming　those　desires　and　not　allowing　them　to　have　their　way；　and　using　the　powers　which　they　had；　whether　of　persuasion　or　of　force；　in　the　improvement　of　their　fellow　citizens；　which　is　the　prime　object　of　the　truly　good　citizen；　I　do　not　see　that　in　these　respects　they　were　a　whit　superior　to　our　present　statesmen；　although　I　do　admit　that　they　were　more　clever　at　providing　ships　and　walls　and　docks；　and　all　that。　You　and　I　have　a　ridiculous　way；　for　during　the　whole　time　that　we　are　arguing；　we　are　always　going　round　and　round　to　the　same　point；　and　constantly　misunderstanding　one　another。　If　I　am　not　mistaken；　you　have　admitted　and　acknowledged　more　than　once；　that　there　are　two　kinds　of　operations　which　have　to　do　with　the　body；　and　two　which　have　to　do　with　the　soul：　one　of　the　two　is　ministerial；　and　if　our　bodies　are　hungry　provides　food　for　them；　and　if　they　are　thirsty　gives　them　drink；　or　if　they　are　cold　supplies　them　with　garments；　blankets；　shoes；　and　all　that　they　crave。　I　use　the　same　images　as　before　intentionally；　in　order　that　you　may　understand　me　the　better。　The　purveyor　of　the　articles　may　provide　them　either　wholesale　or　retail；　or　he　may　be　the　maker　of　any　of　them；…the　baker；　or　the　cook；　or　the　weaver；　or　the　shoemaker；　or　the　currier；　and　in　so　doing；　being　such　as　he　is；　he　is　naturally　supposed　by　himself　and　every　one　to　minister　to　the　body。　For　none　of　them　know　that　there　is　another　art…an　art　of　gymnastic　and　medicine　which　is　the　true　minister　of　the　body；　and　ought　to　be　the　mistress　of　all　the　rest；　and　to　use　their　results　according　to　the　knowledge　which　she　has　and　they　have　not；　of　the　real　good　or　bad　effects　of　meats　and　drinks　on　the　body。　All　other　arts　which　have　to　do　with　the　body　are　servile　and　menial　and　illiberal；　and　gymnastic　and　medicine　are；　as　they　ought　to　be；　their　mistresses。　　　Now；　when　I　say　that　all　this　is　equally　true　of　the　soul；　you　seem　at　first　to　know　and　understand　and　assent　to　my　words；　and　then　a　little　while　afterwards　you　come　repeating；　Has　not　the　State　had　good　and　noble　citizens？　and　when　I　ask　you　who　they　are；　you　reply；　seemingly　quite　in　earnest　as　if　I　had　asked；　Who　are　or　have　been　good　trainers？…and　you　had　replied；　Thearion；　the　baker；　Mithoecus；　who　wrote　the　Sicilian　cookery…book；　Sarambus；　the　vintner：　these　are　ministers　of　the　body；　first…rate　in　their　art；　for　the　first　makes　admirable　loaves；　the　second　excellent　dishes；　and　the　third　capital　wine…to　me　these　appear　to　be　the　exact　parallel　of　the　statesmen　whom　you　mention。　Now　you　would　not　be　altogether　pleased　if　I　said　to　you；　My　friend；　you　know　nothing　of　gymnastics；　those　of　whom　you　are　speaking　to　me　are　only　the　ministers　and　purveyors　of　luxury；　who　have　no　good　or　noble　notions　of　their　art；　and　may　very　likely　be　filling　and　fattening　men's　bodies　and　gaining　their　approval；　although　the　result　is　that　they　lose　their　original　flesh　in　the　long　run；　and　become　thinner　than　they　were　before；　and　yet　they；　in　their　simplicity；　will　not　attribute　their　diseases　and　loss　of　flesh　to　their　entertainers；　but　when　in　after　years　the　unhealthy　surfeit　brings　the　attendant　penalty　of　disease；　he　who　happens　to　be　near　them　at　the　time；　and　offers　them　advice；　is　accused　and　blamed　by　them；　and　if　they　could　they　would　do　him　some　harm；　while　they　proceed　to　eulogize　the　men　who　have　been　the　real　authors　of　the　mischief。　　　And　that；　Callicles；　is　just　what　you　are　now　doing。　You　praise　the　men　who　feasted　the　citizens　and　satisfied　their　desires；　and　people　say　that　they　have　made　the　city　great；　not　seeing　that　the　swollen　And　ulcerated　condition　of　the　State　is　to　be　attributed　to　these　elder　statesmen；　for　they　have　filled　the　city　full　of　harbours　and　docks　and　walls　and　revenues　and　all　that；　and　have　left　no　room　for　justice　and　temperance。　And　when　the　crisis　of　the　disorder　comes；　the　people　will　blame　the　advisers　of　the　hour；　and　applaud　Themistocles　and　Cimon　and　Pericles；　who　are　the　real　authors　of　their　calamities；　and　if　you　are　not　careful　they　may　assail　you　and　my　friend　Alcibiades；　when　they　are　losing　not　only　their　new　acquisitions；　but　also　their　original　possessions；　not　that　you　are　the　authors　of　these　misfortunes　of　theirs；　although　you　may　perhaps　be　accessories　to　them。　A　great　piece　of　work　is　always　being　made；　as　I　see　and　am　told；　now　as　of　old；　about　our　statesmen。　When　the　State　treats　any　of　them　as　malefactors；　I　observe　that　there　is　a　great　uproar　and　indignation　at　the　supposed　wrong　which　is　done　to　them；　〃after　all　their　many　services　to　the　State；　that　they　should　unjustly　perish〃…so　the　tale　runs。　But　the　cry　is　all　a　lie；　for　no　statesman　ever　could　be　unjustly　put　to　death　by　the　city　of　which　he　is　the　head。　The　case　of　the　professed　statesman　is；　I　believe；　very　much　like　that　of　the　professed　sophist；　for　the　sophists；　although　they　are　wise　men；　are　nevertheless　guilty　of　a　strange　piece　of　folly；　professing　to　be　teachers　of　virtue；　they　will　often　accuse　their　disciples　of　wronging　them；　and　defrauding　them　of　their　pay；　and　showing　no　gratitude　for　their　services。　Yet　what　can　be　more　absurd　than　that　men　who　have　become　just　and　good；　and　whose　injustice　has　been　taken　away　from　them；　and　who　have　had　justice　implanted　in　them　by　their　teachers；　should　act　unjustly　by　reason　of　the　injustice　which　is　not　in　them？　Can　anything　be　more　irrational；　my　friends；　than　this？　You；　Callicles；　compel　me　to　be　a　mob…orator；　because　you　will　not　answer。　　　　Cal。　And　you　are　the　man　who　cannot　speak　unless　there　is　some　one　to　answer？　　　Soc。　I　suppose　that　I　can；　just　now；　at　any　rate；　the　speeches　which　I　am　making　are　long　enough　because　you　refuse　to　answer　me。　But　I　adjure　you　by　the　god　of　friendship；　my　good　sir；　do　tell　me　whether　there　does　not　appear　to　you　to　be　a　great　inconsistency　in　saying　that　you　have　made　a　man　good；　and　then　blaming　him　for　being　bad？　　　Cal。　Yes；　it　appears　so　to　me。　　　Soc。　Do　you　never　hear　our　professors　of　education　speaking　in　this　inconsistent　manner？　　　Cal。　Yes；　but　why　talk　of　men　who　are　good　for　nothing？　　　Soc。　I　would　rather　say；　why　talk　of　men　who　profess　to　be　rulers；　and　declare　that　they　are　devoted　to　the　improvement　of　the　city；　and　nevertheless　upon　occasion　declaim　against　the　utter　vileness　of　the　city：…do　you　think　that　there　is　any　difference　between　one　and　the　other？　My　good　friend；　the　sophist　and　the　rhetorician；　as　I　was　saying　to　Polus；　are　the　same；　or　nearly　the　same；　but　you　ignorantly　fancy　that　rhetoric　is　a　perfect　thing；　sophistry　a　thing　to　be　despised；　whereas　the　truth　is；　that　sophistry　is　as　much　superior　to　rhetoric　as　legislation　is　to　the　practice　of　law；　or　gymnastic　to　medicine。　The　orators　and　sophists；　as　I　am　inclined　to　think；　are　the　only　class　who　cannot　complain　of　the　mischief　ensuing　to　themselves　from　that　which　they　teach　others；　without　in　the　same　breath　accusing　themselves　of　having　done　no　good　to　those　whom　they　profess　to　benefit。　Is　not　this　a　fact？　　　Cal。　Certainly　it　is。　　　Soc。　If　they　were　right　in　saying　that　they　make　men　better；　then　they　are　the　only　class　who　can　afford　to　leave　their　remuneration　to　those　who　have　been　benefited　by　them。　Whereas　if　a　man　has　been　benefited　in　any　other　way；　if；　for　example；　he　has　been　taught　to　run　by　a　trainer；　he　might　possibly　defraud　him　of　his　pay；　if　the　trainer　left　the　matter　to　him；　and　made　no　agreement　with　him　that　he　should　receive　money　as　soon　as　he　had　given　him　the　utmost　speed；　for　not　because　of　any　deficiency　of　speed　do　men　act　unjustly；　but　by　reason　of　injustice。　　　Cal。　Very　true。　　　Soc。　And　he　who　removes　injustice　can　be　in　no　danger　of　being　treated　unjustly：　he　alone　can　safely　leave　the　honorarium　to　his　pupils；　if　he　be　really　able　to　make　them　good…am　I　not　right？　　　Cal。　Yes。　　　Soc。　Then　we　have　found　the　reason　why　there　is　no　dishonour　in　a　man　receiving　pay　who　is　called　in　to　advise　about　building　or　any　other　art？　　　Cal。　Yes；　we　have　found　the　reason。　　　Soc。　But　when　the　point　is；　how　a